Id Like to Improve My Knowledge of the Martial Arts

turninghorse

I was reading this commodity linked in another thread:

http://world wide web.twc-kungfu.com/articles/ikf_june_1997/1.html

I constitute it interesting. Equally I am preparation Duncan Leung lineage, which seems quite "traditional" in concepts, I can only assume that Duncan Leung was being taught the traditional organization in individual when the students in the regular class were being taught the "Chan Wah Shuen" version. This is the only way I can make the timeline presented make sense.

Regardless of the veracity of the article, I find myself again confronted with another case of the 1 thing I detect nearly distasteful in martial arts, and which is encountered all too frequently, specifically the selective instruction and witholding of "secret knowledge."

I believe this is slowly changing, but I still run into it from time to time. I remember information technology only hurts martial arts, as it leads to internal inconsistencies being propagated as truth which detracts from the art (though not necessarily the effectiveness)

The success of the student depends on dedication, training, and hard work, not the acquisition of knowledge of techniques.

On the other hand, in the case of Wing Chun, this dissembling ultimately gave us JKD, and so perchance it is a force for development.

hunt1

Your assumption is wrong. Duncan learned the same basic wing chun as everyone else. William Cheung story is his ain and only pertains to what he teaches. The story is very questionable but stories don't affair simply results. Just William learned Tradional Fly chun from Yip Man according to the story no one else.

The almost interesting part of his story is that while he was living with Yip Man and learning the special version of wing chun Tsui Seung Ting was also living with Yip Man in well-nigh a 300 sf area. In fact TST lived with Yip Man longer than anyone else. Then for Williams story to exist true Yip would have taught him while TST was sleeping in front of them. A heavy sleeper that TST never to have been awakend even once during all that fourth dimension.

turninghorse

Wonderful. History is fascinating, and oft the truth is stranger than fiction.

profesormental

Greetings.

What I find interesting is that it is not enough for some people to get by by their own merit, and take to make upwardly stories to legitimize their standing.

Lineage and such should be used simply as points of reference for the evolution and the foundations of the "style" of the person. Also, to give credit where it is due.

Yet it is non a measure of skill. And skill is gained through personal endeavour, not given by a teacher, though if the pedagogy is good enough, it tin can certainly assistance a lot.

As I've stated before, I've seen many practitioners with "proper" and/or distinguished lineages that take nothing to offer except basics; I have witnessed practitioners with no lineage or a "mutt" like me, that have a lot to offer.

Interesting and entertaining stories. History is somewhere in the mix and in between all these stories.

What I exercise know is whoever put together the empty hand forms had a LOT, and I do hateful a LOT of martial knowledge. And that is a fact.

And the names... Sil Lum Tao... the "Lilliputian Thought" form. Call up nearly it...

What is everything made upwards of? The smallest things put together!

Fundamental particles. So that is why I translate Sil Lum Tao as the "Cardinal Course".

That is only ones of the secrets given to me by my "Cloak-and-dagger Primary" who is the ane and only descendent of the True Fly Chun.

Want to know who that is? Ok... I'll tell you... you might know him.

Hard Training. He still teaches with his Kung Fu brothers Continuous Study and Real Experience.

I've learned a lot from them. And I estimate many of you also.

Juan Mercado-Robles

mook jong man

Want to know who that is? Ok... I'll tell yous... you might know him.
Difficult Training. He still teaches with his Kung Fu brothers Continuous Study and Real Feel.

I've learned a lot from them. And I estimate many of you lot too.

Juan Mercado-Robles

I know them , I studied under their two cousins Trial and Error.

BlueVino

I was reading this article linked in another thread:
http://www.twc-kungfu.com/articles/ikf_june_1997/one.html

I found information technology interesting. As I am grooming Duncan Leung lineage, which seems quite "traditional" in concepts, I tin can only assume that Duncan Leung was being taught the traditional arrangement in individual when the students in the regular grade were being taught the "Chan Wah Shuen" version. This is the only fashion I can make the timeline presented make sense.

Regardless of the veracity of the article, I find myself again confronted with another example of the 1 affair I detect near distasteful in martial arts, and which is encountered all too oftentimes, specifically the selective pedagogy and withholding of "secret noesis."

I wouldn't put a lot of historical stock in anything printed in Inside Kung Fu. There are a lot of stories, and a lot of people telling them.

To your 2d bespeak, if a student isn't set to acquire something, I tin can't teach it to them. I can teach a concept a dozen times to a student and they won't be successful until they're set up to learn it (physically, cognitively, etc.) -- am I withholding a secret if someone isn't ready to larn information technology?

It goes for me, also... there are things that I _know_ I don't know, for example the weapons forms. I trust sifu's judgment to teach me those things when I'm set up. Are those forms being kept undercover from me? I don't recall and so, I'm simply not to that point withal.

turninghorse

Regardless of the veracity of the article

That was my mode of saying I didn't believe it.

am I withholding a clandestine if someone isn't prepare to learn it

This is not exactly that with which I am concerned. It is more the holding dorsum of specific techniques or ideas to certain students, or worse teaching "incorrect" for some and the "true mode" just to others.

I am sure this does non occur in your school, just it does happen from time to time.

Since Hard Training, Continuous Study, Existent Experience, Trial, and Fault are the true teachers, information technology makes no sense to me not to share knowledge, equally noesis without mastery gained through difficult work is no more substantial than a bluish print compared with an actual building.

yak sao

I know them , I studied under their ii cousins Trial and Error.

I have also institute Pain is a very good teacher.

geezer

This is not exactly that with which I am concerned. Information technology is more the belongings back of specific techniques or ideas to sure students, or worse didactics "incorrect" for some and the "true way" simply to others.
I am certain this does not occur in your school, only it does happen from fourth dimension to time.

Well it sure happened with my old Chinese sifu, and I think its more mutual in WC branches than almost of united states would care to admit. At least when I first met my onetime sifu in 1980, he openly admitted that certain movements and interpretations of his organisation were his own and that was why he deliberately chose a different way of spelling his WC. I thoroughly respected this openess.

But afterward I constitute out that he was cagey and near paranoid in the way he would withold data... Sometimes from us --his senior disciples (peculiarly if we were brusk of cash or time to devote to promoting him) --and more ofttimes from lower ranked students and the general public. He published books and posters with deliberate errors, "just to fool the other WC people", he falsified photos and documents to advise a closer relationship between himself and GM Yip Man than actually existed, flaunted a PhD degree purchased from a diploma factory, and then forth.

The irony is that these unecessary shenanigans lost him many devoted students and gave him the appearrance of existence a total fraud in the eyes of many outsiders. Even so, the fact was that he had incredible skills, a unique and valuable system of WC, and a legitimate, if not especially close relationship with GM Yip. But by trying to be and then clever in his excessive efforts at self-promotion, he lost brownie for himself and for his students.

Since I left that teacher in the early 90's I've encountered similarly ...er... unreliable claims and statements made by many other WC sifus and organizations, including many of the best known names. At least in hindsight, I realize that my onetime sifu did have terrific skills. Some of the other large names in WC don't. But what expert are a sifu'south skills anyhow... if he won't honestly share them!

profesormental

Greetings.

I've enjoyed the messages in this discussion, because withholding information and training methods, and comparing the results and working to meliorate them is a sure way in which the arrangement volition weaken over time.

Open discussion and examination of preparation and working to better results, non maintain "how it was taught", should be priority. This is eternal growth. Eternal Bound.

For some reason, people don't get that hoarding secrets and non disseminating them is a sure way to exist forgotten. Wing Chun thrives now because it was taught to a broad audience.

Now, with easy access to communication, it is the best of times and a great opportunity to increase our skills and cognition. I don't know about many hither, merely I know that I've benefited greatly from the pooled cognition from the discussions in these forums.

Keeping things hole-and-corner would get us nowhere. In the 1960's, considering there were so few, many shared knowledge. this led to the enrichment and comeback of many practitioners and their methods.

Doing this is the merely way to surpass the aboriginal Masters, who most probably did the same.

Juan Mercado-Robles

geezer

Greetings.
I've enjoyed the messages in this discussion, because withholding information and training methods, and (not) comparison the results and working to ameliorate them is a sure way in which the system will weaken over time.

Open up discussion and examination of training and working to improve results, non maintain "how it was taught", should be priority. This is eternal growth. Eternal Bound.

This is a great point. Another thing that is harmful to the development of a WC is the dogmatic attitude the "this is right and that is wrong" when assessing how others approach technique, form, or training method. Certainly certain approaches yield improve results than others, and may offering safer, more efficient solutions. Merely why tin can't we considerately discuss the differences in our systems from that perspective. In other words, when you lot see a technique or strategy that yous disagree with, you would discuss it from a sort of risk vs. benefit perspective, rather than a dogmatic and disciplinarian "you're incorrect and we're right" attitude, or worse, from a "nosotros know the secret and yous guys are clueless" mental attitude.

I guess this could exist a skillful topic for a new thread. I promise you guys will chinkle in.

Poor Uke

"In that location are no secrets in Wing Chun, just meliorate use of basics" - Sifu Ward

A philosophy that I apply to my grooming reguardless of style (or sub manner).

profesormental

"There are no secrets in Fly Chun, just amend use of nuts" - Sifu Ward
A philosophy that I apply to my training reguardless of style (or sub fashion).

I couldn't agree more.

I would just add not only ameliorate utilise of nuts, only improved and more optimized execution of basic movements. That is ane of the near of import aspects regardless of art, organization, style, etc.

To me, that is what it boils down to.

profesormental

Greetings.

Actually, geezer, I tend to employ comparisons betwixt stability in movements, and when I find a more stable, efficient, constructive fashion to execute a movement, I adopt the training method to get there.

THe thing is that sometimes the differences are and then small, they are imperceptible, except if I betoken them out. For case, the way I practise SLT, you wouldn't notice many differences except in the execution details... nonetheless they make a Earth of difference if tested nether resistance and load.

More afterwards, and then I could give some examples.

dungeonworks

"There are no secrets in Wing Chun, only ameliorate utilize of basics" - Sifu Ward
A philosophy that I apply to my grooming reguardless of style (or sub way).

That is a GREAT point when speaking of Any fashion of Martial Arts. In my Martial Travels, I accept seen many students (seasoned and beginners alike) be then eager to get to a high technical level that they volition speed through the nuts to get to the percieved "good stuff". The "good stuff" IS the basics, or at the very least relies upon a thorough understanding of them.

My ego aside....and for the record, at one time or another I accept caught myself in that boat too. :mst: The older I get (37 yrs onetime now), the more appealing the basics go.

dungeonworks

I couldn't agree more than.
I would just add together not only meliorate apply of basics, simply improved and more than optimized execution of basic movements. That is ane of the virtually important aspects regardless of fine art, system, manner, etc.

To me, that is what it boils downwardly to.

Hahahaha...I posted almost the aforementioned thing before reading this! :uhyeah:

Tensei85

I recollect this Kuen Kuit is a good instance;

手脚相消無绝招 Sau Gerk Sheung Si Mo Jut Jiu - Hand confronting Mitt and Foot against Pes, There is no "unstoppable technique".

El_Nastro

As soon as I saw William Cheung'due south picture in that article, that was enough to dismiss the article as worthless. You can't believe a word Cheung says.

I wouldn't have a problem with Cheung if he was honest nearly what he teaches & where it comes from, simply he's not.

William Cheung is in the same category every bit Frank Dux, Count Dante, or Ashida Kim.

First, what are Cheung's claims? Just in case some people don't know exactly what the controversy with him is, let's start past summarizing what Cheung's deal is....

Cheung'southward forms look radically different than all of Ip Man's other students, and his "Wing Chun" in exercise is very, very dissimilar in terms of awarding. His Siu Lim Tao looks somewhat like, but the resemblance stops there. What he calls "Chum Kiu", "Biu Jee", & his dummy grade await nothing like any of Ip Man's other students. Why is that? Here's where things start to become fishy....

Cheung says his WC is and then very different considering he, and he alone, was taught a secret version of the system past Ip Homo.

According to Cheung, at some point Wing Chung was modified from the real, traditional, more-effective system of Wing Chun into a watered-down, less constructive, simpler, weakened version of the system, and it is this "Modified" system that Ip Human being taught to EVERYONE.

The "existent", "traditional" Wing Chun was but too precious, and too deadly to teach publicly, so Ip Man taught a imitation version to his commerical students.

Eventually though, Ip Human being met a young, x-year one-time William Cheung, and at long last found someone Truly Worthy to whom he could pass down the Traditional Wing Chun. Cheung says Ip Man invited young William to live with him, and it is there that the young Called One was SECRETLY trained by Ip Man in the One True Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu. Young William lived under Ip Man's roof preparation in secret for several years. Eventually, after the young man had mastered Traditional Fly Chun, Ip Man told him that now HE was the Sole Inheritor and Main of Traditional Fly Chun. Ip Man made immature Master Cheung have a Secret Vow to not speak of his cloak-and-dagger grooming, nor to teach anyone the Traditional Wing Chun until subsequently he (Ip Man) died. When Ip Man had died though, William was costless to speak of his training, and teach whoever he wanted. And so, at nigh the age of 18, the new Master of Traditional Wing Chun left Hong Kong for Austrailia.

Meanwhile, while William was being secretly trained past Ip Man, Ip was teaching Anybody else the less-effective "modified" system, for NONE of them were worthy of learning the Traditional system, even guys who started before William. Fifty-fifty Wong Shun Leung, who started before William and added to Ip Man'southward schoolhouse's reputation by competing in illegal bare-knuckle fights was unworthy. Fifty-fifty Ip Man'south own sons were unworthy. No one was worthy except for William Cheung. ALL of Ip Man's other students were trained in the Modified system, and none of them fifty-fifty knew it. They all thought Ip Human was training them equally best he could. He was not, for none of them (repeat: NONE of them) were good plenty.

Then that'southward how Cheung explains the departure betwixt what he does, and what everyone else does. And yeah, this really is Cheung's story. He Actually claims this happened, in REAL life.

What'south wrong with these claims? Well, if you really think about them, they just don't make sense on whatever level.

Consider what would have to be true, if Cheung was telling the truth:

1. Ip Man was a sleezy wiggle who deliberately ripped off ALL his other students, including his Ain SONS. He taught all of them wrong on purpose. That makes Ip Man a jerk, doesn't it? How would y'all feel if you paid expert money to someone for what you thought was effective fighting technique, merely it turned out the guy was teaching yous less-than-effective stuff on purpose?

two. Ip was crazy.

Why in the world would Ip Human but teach the "secret" kung fu to one guy with the stipulation that the secret stuff can then exist taught to anyone and everyone after he died? That makes no sense whatsoever.

If the system was so deadly that Ip Man only trusted ONE person (Cheung) with that system, then why is it ok for Cheung to sell information technology to anyone after Ip Man dies?

Either Ip Man didn't want the system to get out, or he did.

If he did not want the organization to get out, he wouldn't have told Cheung he could teach it commercially.

If he didn't care if the organization was sold publicly, then he would have taught it himself.

Information technology makes NO sense that Ip Human would say; "Hither is a clandestine, deadly martial art that only You, William Cheung, are worthy of. I give this to you lot, and you alone! Teach whoever y'all want, but only afterward I dice!"

Makes NO sense. Ip Homo must have been crazy.

3. Ip was senile and crazy.

Virtually a week or 2 before Ip Man died, he committed the forms to moving picture. You can actually see Ip Man doing Siu Lim Tao, Chum Kiu, the dummy grade, and the pole grade on youtube.

If we believe Cheung's story, and so Ip Man climbed out of HIS DEATHBED, in the throes of cancer, and put a watered-down, modified, commercial, crap-version of Fly Chun on film, then information technology would never be destroyed.

One would think if Ip Man was going to do such a affair, he would've committed the "existent" version of WC on film wouldn't he? After all, didn't he say it would exist ok for Cheung to teach information technology subsequently he (Ip Man) died?

If Ip Homo wanted the "traditional" system taught after his death, and he knew he was dying when he made the film, and then why wouldn't he tape the real stuff, and transport it off to Cheung for posterity? Why did he tape the "modified" arrangement?!?!

Again, Ip Man must have been insane.

None of these things brand sense. In order for Cheung to be telling the truth, Ip Man was a jerk who ripped off and lied to his students. Ip was also probably crazy.

But what if Cheung made the whole story upward?
Then all of these things are perfectly explainable:

1. Cheung's forms look different because he never learned any WC beyond Siu Lim Tao. What he wasn't formally trained in, he made up.

This is consistent with the fact that Cheung's Siu Lim Tao looks basically the same equally anybody else'due south, but his other forms exercise not. If Ip Man really taught Cheung a whole different version of WC, shouldn't Cheung'southward Siu Lim Tao look equally different as his version of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee? It probably should, simply it doesn't. Cheung's SLT looks basically the same, but his more than avant-garde forms are radically unlike than anybody else's.

Cheung was trained in SLT, but probably received petty or no formal training in Chum Kiu, Biu Jee, or the dummy.

Cheung's versions of the other forms wait like he cobbled them together based on what he could recall from occasionally glimpsing the action more advanced students.

2. Ip Man didn't rip off anyone. He trained everyone as best he could, and did right by his students, giving them all the all-time educational activity he could. This is consistent with every account of Ip Man as given by those who knew him. The consensus is that Ip Man was an honest, honorable, humble, genuinely nice person who would never pull the sort of stunt that Cheung claims.

three. Ip Homo wasn't crazy at all. Cheung fabricated up the thing well-nigh how "You can merely teach the secret system after I am dead!", then Ip Man couldn't refute Cheung's claims. Cheung'due south whole story hinges on Ip Man, then if Ip Human being's dead, he can't exactly set the record straight, can he?

4. Ip Man climbed out of his deathbed and committed Existent Wing Chun to film, because information technology was important to him that there be a record of his system as he taught information technology. It was his life'south work afterward all, and it makes perfect sense that he would want to record information technology for posterity. Makes perfect sense if Cheung is lying.

So these are all the reasons that anyone tin logically see that show Cheung is lying. Simply there'south more than just logical reasoning. There's testimony.

Except for Cheung'southward students, NO ONE backs up Cheung on any of his claims. NO. ONE. I've been into Wing Chung for about 15 years now. I'1000 in an Ip Ching school right now, but I've hung out with some Leung Ting guys too. After 15 years on this scene, I've talked to a lot of people. Enough of these people take been into WC longer than me, and NONE of them back up Cheung. ALL of the people I have known through the years who are plugged into the Wing Chun scene....ALL of them know, from conversations they've had, that Cheung is a liar. He started when he was about 14-15 years old, not 10. He never lived with Ip Man. He learned a little bit when he was a teenager, and then moved to Australia.

Also, where'southward the evidence in back up of Cheung's claims? Aye, there is a picture of him standing next to Ip Man, but all that ways is that he was his student. There's no question Cheung took lessons for a few years. Having your picture taken with the sifu doesn't mean you lot've mastered anything - there's a picture of Ip Human like that with lots of his students. It only means the person was a pupil. There's a flick like that of Ip Man with Bruce Lee, & Lee never mastered WC. I have a flick of me like that with my Hong Kong trained sifu - it doesn't mean a thing.

Where's the evidence that Cheung was a live-in student? He says he lived with Ip Man for years, then there should be bear witness. How about evidence that he actually started training when he was 10 years old? At that place isn't whatever. At all. Y'all'd think that if Cheung lived with Ip Human for years, there ought to be a pic him in Ip's house. Or a motion picture of a 10 or 11 yr old Cheung doing WC, or a movie of Cheung's area in Ip's business firm or the ii of them eating dinner, or grooming, or SOMETHING to indicate he actually was a live-in student. Or mayhap some reference from a third political party....like a alphabetic character from ane WC guy to some other where they mention "that kid living with Ip Man." If Cheung really started when he was 10, and if he actually lived with Ip, someone would take mentioned information technology at sometime. At that place should be some form of evidence. But there isn't. Nada. There's Zippo to support Cheung'due south story other than his word.

And, a bunch of Ip Man'south former students got together and formally refuted Cheung'southward claims. Go along in mind these aren't necessarily a bunch of guys that got along well, but they all put aside their differences and came together to refute Cheung's claims. Those guys were: Wong Shun Leung, Leung Ting, Tong Chao Chi, Lok Yiu, Ip Ching, Ho Kam Ming, Siu Yuk Man, Chan Tak Chiu, Tsui Sheung Can, Koo Sang, Lee Wai Chi, Victor Kan, and Ip Chun. (run across http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=250537&postcount=one )

And so what do you all think is more likely? That ALL of those guys are lying, or that merely Cheung is lying? That ALL of those guys were only jealous, or that Cheung made up this petty story, so as to make himself seem more bonny to potential paying students?

Then in that location's the Boztepe fight: If Cheung'south telling the truth, and he has MASTERED the real, authentic, unmodified Fly Chun that's way more than constructive than the watered-down version, how come up he got beat so handily by Emin Boztepe? I know, I know...."my slippers were slippery! He jumped me from backside!". Excuses like that are weak, peculiarly when it was Cheung who issued an open challenge to fight "anyone, anywhere, at someday"!

I've been beat before, and I don't make whatsoever excuses. I bet you don't, either. I've heard all the excuses, but it makes a lot more than sense, when taken along with all the other information I just outlined, that Cheung lost considering he really isn't THAT skilful, has very footling formal training from his elders, and his system is stuff he fabricated up. That'southward HONESTLY the best explanation as to why he got beat.

On the issue of Respect: Information technology's not uncommon, when pointing out how full of $h1t William Cheung is, for someone to say something like "Hey, yous should be more than respectful!", so I have a couple things to say about "respect", and William Cheung.

William Cheung himself has behaved horribly disrespectfully towards his sifu, his former classmates, and his students:

Disrespectful & insulting to the character of his sifu:

Again, it is an insult to the character of Ip Man to claim that Ip would deliberately cheat ALL his students except for one noobie teenager. How would you feel about an teacher who did that? Pretend you're one of the guys who started WC under Ip Human being before William Cheung. Yous pay Ip skillful money, you work hard, and you lot trust Ip's training to protect you. You're loyal to Ip, and train with him for well-nigh 20 years until he dies. So you find out that for all those years, Ip had been education you a less-effective, watered-down, crap-version of WC. Ip'southward been lying to you lot and ripping yous off for almost 20 years! Information technology turns out, he's been lying to everyone except one guy. The simply person Ip taught was a newbie teenager who started after y'all did, and was only around for a few years! Co-ordinate to William Cheung, that'due south exactly what Ip Human did to guys like Wong Shun Leung and Tsui Shong Tin, and fifty-fifty his own sons!

Disrespectful & Insulting to his classmates:

Again, pretend you're ane of Cheung's classmates. How would yous experience well-nigh Cheung? He says he's better than you. Did Ip Human being teach YOU Traditional WC? No, he didn't. Why? Because you aren't worthy. None of you were. Cheung is better than ALL of you. Only Cheung was worthy because simply he didn't suck. You lot sucked, so Ip Man didn't souvenir you with annihilation other than a watered-down, commercial product version of WC.

Disrespectful to his ain students:

This is the real bad part about Cheung'south beliefs. No one i walks into one of Cheung'south schools knowing all the stuff I just presented. Most of his new students are probably new to martial arts, so of course they're going to exist impressed and become emotionally invested in the school. Cheung will probably become their Kung Fu Hero. Eventually though, they'll acquire about the controversies. They'll larn that their Kung Fu Hero has been lying to them. That's gotta be rough.

What does a person do when they discover out their Kung Fu Hero is full of crap and has been lying to them for months (or years)? one of 2 things:

ane. They tin acknowledge they've been played for a sucker and drop out of Cheung's school. This ways they've just dumped a ton of fourth dimension, money, & hard work correct down the toilet.

2. OR they can become through all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince themselves that Cheung's not really lying, or convince themselves that somehow his lies don't matter. Basically, they tin starting time lying to themselves. Lying to yourself for years can't be skillful for a person's mental health. It'south horrible for Cheung to put his trusting students in that position.

Neither one of those is off-white.

Then Cheung's lies insult the character of his sifu, they insult his classmates, and information technology'south horrible to lie to trusting students. Totally disrespectful in every way!

I would submit that if a person behaves similar this, they don't deserve our respect. Respect must be earned through honest and honorable behavior, and William Cheung is, sadly, a almost dishonorable and dishonest person.

You know who does deserve respect? The memory of Ip Man & his many honest students. The naive students of Cheung likewise deserve our respect. We tin can give them the respect they deserve by non letting Cheung's disrespectful, insulting, and shameful lies become unchallenged.

We should too have respect for the truth for its own sake.

And lastly, respect for others is expert, but one should have respect for oneself besides. Office of self respect is not letting oneself go lied to or played for a sucker by people like William Cheung.

In conclusion: "Traditional Fly Chun" is a lie, and William'southward story is complete and utter b.s.

What Really happened is more than likely this: William Cheung took Fly Chun lesson for a few years in the '50'southward, starting time ~age 15 (non age 10). He definitely learned all of SLT, and maybe parts of Chum Kiu and the Wooden Dummy. He moved to Austrailia. He wanted to fix up shop as a kung fu teacher, and figured he could make more than money if people thought he was a Bang-up Master with some kind of Ancient Hugger-mugger Deadly Kung Fu System. He made upwards "Traditional Wing Chun", and came upwardly with a line of ******** about "secret training" & a "vow of secrecy" in society to cover his *** in case a Existent Wing Chun master should always happen to point out that William's organization has nothing to exercise with anything Ip Man taught.

What'due south and then stupid about Cheung's approach is that his bu11$h!t is totally unnecessary. Bruce Lee's background was similar to Cheung's: Both learned a little bit of WC, & both moved to unlike countries before they finished the curriculum. Bruce Lee was honest, though. Bruce Lee basically said "Jeet Kune Do is my own invention. There'southward some stuff from Wing Chun in information technology, but I never mastered Wing Chun. JKD is my ain thing that I came upwardly with."

Expect how successful JKD is! Does anyone care that JKD isn't a Secret Ancient Traditional Mystery Kung Fu? No.

If Cheung had only been honest nearly what his groundwork was, I wouldn't have a problem with him & might even be interested in his system. He chose to be dishonest though, so screw 'im.

geezer

As soon as I saw William Cheung's picture in that article, that was enough to dismiss the commodity as worthless. Yous tin't believe a discussion Cheung says...

Man, Nastro, this really got yous worked up. Heck I didn't think everyone even cared anymore... especially since that fourth dimension a zillion years ago when Emin Boztepe cleaned his clock. Really now. Take a few deep breaths and try to think of something pleasant.

El_Nastro

Human, Nastro, this really got you worked up. Heck I didn't call up everyone fifty-fifty cared anymore... especially since that time a zillion years ago when Emin Boztepe cleaned his clock. Really at present. Take a few deep breaths and effort to think of something pleasant.

Lol. No, I'1000 non especially worked upwards, but I honestly practise think it'due south important for people to know exactly what this guys claims are, and what's wrong with those claims.

Every bit far as "no one caring anymore" - sure, for most people all this stuff is old news, merely if you ask around it actually is surprising how many people simply haven't stumbled across this information. At that place'southward plenty of people with a passing interest in WC who just don't know the story. What happens if someone like that happens to walk into a Cheung school? I figure it's best if people hear this stuff earlier that happens, & there aren't besides many definitive "exposes" on William Cheung. And then I figured I'd consolidate the whole story/controversy into 1 piece.

Mosley Queleandon

Id Like to Improve My Knowledge of the Martial Arts

Fake teaching and hush-hush knowledge

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